Does SSA define someone? Does it define a Priest? Part 2 of Interviews with a Priest with SSA.

EDITORS NOTE: To date, the published interview of January 7, 2019, titled Living Chastity amid Uncharity: An Interview with a Priest with SSA, has garnered a great deal of attention by readership.  Due to the strong (mostly positive) reactions to the interview, and the requests for a follow up, I approached the Priest with whom I spoke earlier.  He agreed.

I would like to start by asking your thoughts on the title of the second article.  Do you believe the title accurately reflects the thoughts of these Priests, who all say that they are chaste?  Do you believe that Same Sex Attraction constitutes for some clergy a “cage and not a closet”?  Or do you think that may be overdramatized, fitting a progressive narrative?

It’s hard to answer that question, really, because I don’t know these men (just like many who are freely criticizing them!).  They are making an emotional assessment of themselves and I trust they are being honest.  I don’t think it’s overdramatized, necessarily.  But that’s just because a lot of it has to do with temperament and personality.  I am an extrovert and need to talk things out and get them out there.  Most of my gay priest friends are introverted and do not feel the need as I do to be as free in expressing this part of my life.   I have a feeling that this has more to do with the temperament of these men than their sexuality (wounded or otherwise).

I am a little cautious of accepting the word “cage”, though.  It’s not necessarily a cage in my experience, because to say it’s a cage means you can’t get out, you can’t experience love, you can’t experience healing.  So it’s not true.  It’s possible that say it’s a cage because they have embraced too much the identity.  But as I said, we can’t really know!

Yes and no.  There is nothing wrong with a priest sharing his sexuality per se.  It is probably not a good idea.  In the current climate, it is probably a bad idea.  The current (uncharitable and Pharisaical) witch hunt makes it a bad idea.  The only way I could see it being of value is if we all came out together and that’s not going to happen.

But we do need to share.  It is not good for man to be alone.  And everything that is not brought to the light will be more susceptible to the powers of darkness.  How much is shared, and with whom, depends on the person and their circumstances, but I would swear that it is not healthy for it to be limited to the formal settings of confession and spiritual direction, at least in my experience.  It requires opening your heart to a friend or friends.  I have found this to be my greatest consolation.

It is not good for the man to be alone.  The disciples were sent out in twos.  Friendship has been considered a higher love than romance by many great thinkers, for good reason.  For the man with SSA, I would say that true, profound friendship is essential.  Because we are all wounded and because I believe that those with SSA feel acute wounds in their hearts (whether through cause or effect is irrelevant), the medicine of friendship is essential to their healing.

Perfect love drives out all fear.  To fear a “particular friendship” is dangerous because it sets up an obstacle to love.  Yes, we have to guard our hearts, but that does not mean that we lock them away so that they become hardened, to use C. S. Lewis’ famous analogy.  All healthy relationships have boundaries but they shouldn’t isolate us.

In my own experience and in my interactions with others, I have found that when all the sex and impurity is pushed aside, what a gay man finds he really wants is just a male friend.

Well, the facts that I am confronted with are that: I am a priest with SSA.  Many of my priest friends are gay.  I have heard of many, many more.  And we all accept the fact that there is nothing new under the sun.  If we understand friendship, than we know that a true friendship is affectionate in some way.  So I can’t see why anyone would be surprised by any of these assertions.  The heroic virtue of the Saints which leads them to be canonized as examples to us, includes persevering in their fight against sin and vice until death.  I can only assume that means that some of our Saints overcame this particular weakness by the grace of God and I hope to be one of them.

I’m not sure.  The fact is that I might suspect or have heard about a number of gay priests, but the number that I personally know is pretty small, the ones whose stories I have personally heard.  I also know that she could only talk to priests who would admit their condition and who knows how many won’t.  So, I couldn’t say. None of us can.

I think that the ages of the priests in the article are a huge factor, though.  They seem to all be older.  I think that there being much more openness about sexuality has made the pressure less in more recent decades.  I think that the internet has made connecting easier (but more frequently than not for sinful reasons, sadly).

But yes, I think that generally speaking the shame and fear are as prevalent as she says.  While I might be very comfortable talking to a bunch of my friends (I’ve come out to a lot of people in my life), I’m still careful.  I am terrified at the repercussions, if nothing else because I love my ministry and would not be able to do it as well if people knew given the current prejudice.

There are a bunch of things that I want to say that would not be appropriate or charitable.  Some of things that I can say are:  That is not necessary. It won’t actually solve the real problem.  It’s not a rational response to the problem.  You would cripple the Church because of how many of us there are.

Having listened to many confessions of men, we are no more wounded than straight men, no more confused about reality, no more inclined to our own demise, the devil will use whatever it takes to destroy all souls.

Assuming I understand what he is saying right, then absolutely.  We’ve always had bad clergy, if you remember what St. John Chrysostom said about the road to Hell being paved with the skulls of erring priests, etc.

We’ve seen clergy lead so many of the laity astray over the last few decades by teaching error and accepting immorality (such as artificial contraception).  But many laity have gone along with it.  We’ve gotten to the point now, though, where we can point to this abuse as an evil everyone recognizes.  There’s no denying it.

While I can agree with challenging morally compromised priests (someone has to!), I absolutely condemn the lack of charity with which most of this is being done.

I’ve never heard this before, but I think that it is absolutely true.  Remember what Jesus says about eunuchs for the Kingdom and what St. Paul says about the unmarried being free to be occupied with the things of God.  For those homosexuals who do not try to pursue homosexual relationships as if they were the same thing as heterosexual relationships, they can give more of their time and energy in the pure pursuit of the love of God.

I think what is behind this is the fact that marriage is only the reflection of the relationship that St. Paul tells the Ephesians exists between Jesus and the Church.  In the end, marriage goes away but the spousal relationship between the soul and Christ remains.  This mystical union is written about by such great writers as St. John of the Cross and St. Theresa of Avila and is the goal for all souls.  Those men and women who have a natural reason for not pursuing marriage because they are not attracted to the opposite sex, could be more disposed to seek the “other” in God.

Without asking for anyone’s pity, there is some degree of suffering that accompanies the homosexual inclination which, when accepted with appropriate resignation, makes one more conformed to the passion of Christ in a significant way.

I don’t think so at all and I think the statistics bear it out.  The statistics do say that those who themselves are abused are more likely, but many people have been abused and not all of them are same-sex attracted.

Either way, I think the question is irrelevant.  People aren’t statistics.  What I mean is that unless there is a direct correlation between one characteristic and another (such as having SSA and being an abuser), then to assume that an individual person who has one characteristic also has the other is unjust and can do real damage to the person involved.

If you want a breakdown of the statistics, I’d refer you to the article by Chris Damian. [Link inserted]

Absolutely.  It’s irrational and unjust.  The life of a priest is very difficult, even with the grace of God.  Between all the usual enemies that Christians have to fight and the fact that priests are particularly attacked by the devil, we don’t need additional unjust accusations which cause us to live in more fear.

I think you ask very good questions.  I’ve thought about this and haven’t developed my thoughts as much as I would like, but it boils down to this:

What the left does is (God knows why) is insist on a person “being” gay.  But the right acts like it.  In other words, the right wants all “gay” clergy gone.  Well, according to what they say, no one IS gay, therefore there are no gay clergy.

I want to add, though, that most people always fall back on criticizing anyone who says that they are gay with “but that’s not who you are!”.  Please, just stop.  We get it.  Yes, young people who might merely be confused need to hear that.  But otherwise all it does is derail any helpful conversation.  “Gay” is no more my identity than “hungry” is.  It merely describes a desire.  I know it’s more nuanced than that, but I see it all the time from even well-intentioned people.  You’re not going to win anyone to Christ insisting on that point.  It’s an unnecessary burden.

Absolutely.  I think that some of it is rooted in the woundedness which I firmly believe is a part of the origin of the homosexual orientation.  But that doesn’t make it bad.   Henri Nouwan took Jung’s idea of the “wounded healer” and wrote a book on the subject.  In my own experience, my own woundedness which I firmly believe is tied to my homosexuality has made me a far better priest (and man) than I would otherwise be.  True, it has to be in the context of striving for virtue (especially an iota of humility) and the grace of God in prayer and the sacraments, but it is undoubtedly true in my case and I would suspect in many others.

I honestly don’t think I can say much here because I don’t know as much about the areas of addiction and statistics.  All I can say is that it is only my faith and my friends that keep me out of related problems.  “There but for the grace of God” and, I would add, the love of my friends, “go I.”  I think the real issue is that our social milieu and the breakdown of the family/friendship are the perfect recipe for what leads to addiction among gays and lesbians and all people, in fact.

That’s what they teach us in seminary, isn’t it?  He’s just saying it in his own words.  We ought to have a certain amount of integration of our sexuality (whichever way it is inclined) and if it’s just something “out there” which we don’t deal with, we are not integrated and, therefore, going to suffer the repercussions, which are usually very painful, for ourselves and others.

I think you more or less nailed it with your article on the subject.  It solves nothing but placates the mob.  He is a priest forever and will be a priest forever in Heaven or in Hell.

I think that we are on the cusp of something which will help us deal with the situation, but we’re not ready yet.  The hierarchy doesn’t take this seriously enough yet and given that so many people who are in power in the Church are the kind of gay that doesn’t seem inclined to convert, it’s going to take a while.  And those of us who, like myself, feel that they might be able to make a difference for the better can’t because truly orthodox, traditional Catholics who recognize real problems in the Church don’t recognize that their uncharity is as much a problem.

When I was ordained, I offered my priesthood to God for the sake of my parents and for homosexuals.  I spend much of my free time encouraging, guiding, and supporting homosexually inclined laity, seminarians and priests to help them live the most holy lives possible and bear this Cross.  To know that I have been given the opportunity to reach a wider audience and bring consolation to them is itself a great consolation and makes my own Cross easier to bear.

I heard that a prominent Catholic priest blogger has basically told us to suck it up.  May his heart be softened.

My impression from the article is that these priests have persevered despite great inner turmoil for many years, if not decades.  I may not agree with them completely, but I’m also not in their shoes and therefore will refrain from evaluating.

I think there is a very important idea that no one has yet talked about (that I know of).  Lots of us have heard the medieval idea that grace builds on nature.  We’ve seen it even if we haven’t heard it.  I know that far more of my work in my parish is teaching people basics of child-rearing and living like decent human beings when I thought I would be more occupied with more mystical work!  But I can’t teach them the supernatural things if the natural things aren’t in order.

The point I’m trying to make is that these priests are being criticized using a supernatural standard when the subject we’re dealing with is natural.  These are psychological wounds.  And yes, they should have been addressed.  But they weren’t.  And they weren’t because the very real shame and fear involved.  They need to address these wounds supernaturally, but also naturally.

So, I don’t think it’s excessive or exaggerated.  I think that they could handle it better (we all can, after all).  I know that they need to be heard.  I have, thanks be to God, not had that bad a time because I have been blessed with many good friends, both gay and straight.

Thank you for the opportunity, brother.  I just wanted to leave one final thought, because it really is the most important, as a gay priest friend of mine would put it: Priests with SSA are in persona Christi and many of them are working diligently, faithfully and wholly for the salvation of souls, while at the same time carrying a cross.  Pray for all priests!